keeps ing with arizona. >> there you go. >> biden wins every week. >> he doesn't win every week. my choice is whoever made the imeach sign for lauren boebert. but i'm picking melba wilson. today she hosted meghan markle and prince harry at her restaurant in harlem. there they are. oh, my god, i'm so proud of melba. that was awesome. that is tonight's readout. "all in with chris hayes" starts now. tonight on "all in," texas caves after trump demanded an audit of the election he won. tonight, an escalating effort to undermine the very foundation of american democracy. >> the president already concluded that it would it don't tell appropriate to assert executive privilege. >> the white house scotches trump's attempt to invade the

january 6th investigation as the first subpoenas roll out. if any of these people think they're somehow going to escape undedicated, they got something else coming. >> committee member jamie raskin joins me tonight. plus -- it's hard to acknowledge the number 65, but i'll be getting my booster. >> the booster shots are a go after the cdc director overrules her own advisers. >> as cdc director it's my job to recognize where actions "k" the greatest impact. >> dr. walensky is here to explain her decision when "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. donald trump has been on a mission to undermine all the trust in all elections everywhere in the u.s. that's the goal. and even as he is handed yet another humiliating defeat in that effort, republican politicians still bow and scrape before him.

just after we got off the air last night, there's late breaking news about his latest efforts to pave a path for seizing power in the future. you might remember that we talked about the pressure that the governor of texas, greg abbott, was under to start an audit of the state's 2020 election results. this despite the fact, remember, donald trump won texas. republicans did well in the elections in 2020 there. and lo and behold, someone appears to have buckled to precisely that pressure. this happened just as we finished the show, okay? the office of the texas secretary of state released a statement saying a forensic audit has already begun for texas's two largest democrat counties. it's democratic, but whatever, dallas and harris, and the two largest republican counties, terrence and collin for the 2020 election. you see how deliver they think

they are? we can't be motivated by partisanship. we're investigating the big cities where all the bad people live and steal the investigations and we're investigating the big ren counts, but president biden narrowly won those so-called counties, tarrant county, which is astounding. there's interesting context to this particular announcement because i thought, oh, who is the texas secretary of state? it comes from the office of the secretary of state. but there is no officer in that office. texas doesn't have a secretary of state right now. and there's a good reason why, because in texas the position is nominated by the governor and then approved by the state senate, not directly elected. the woman that governor abbott chose in 2019 made the cardinal sin of overseeing a free and fair election in texas, and then to make matters worse, one of her aides told lawmakers, quote, texas had an election that was smooth and secure, which

objectively it did. similar to georgia, real high turnout, lots of people voted, and it was secure. the texas state senate refused to confirm the secretary in her position, which led to her resignation earlier this year, the texas democrats allege that she was basically iced out by state senate republicans for the sin of not buying into the conspiracy of a rigged election in texas, which i have to say again, donald trump won. so the office of secretary of state of texas the is now empty. there is no answer to the question, who is the secretary of state of texas? yet somehow the office is still going to go ahead and bend to the insane and dangerous demands of donald trump and the authoritarian right to undermine the election system in texas. the timing here is both dangerous and comical as all this story tends to be because it comes right before we learn

the results of the arizona election audit, the biggest county there too, the democrat county, maricopa, which used to be hard-core conservative republican and now is won by democrats, exact same sort of formula. the partisan charade in the maricopa county audit by the so-called cyber ninjas, we've been covering it quite a bit. the whole thing was transparently a joke from the beginning, full of bizarre headline after bizarre headline. they took it to montana and scoured the ballots for bamboo fibers, they used uv lights too look for nonexistent water marks. they had to move the ballots because the roof started leaking in the room where they worked. at another point, they had to pause the audit because the venue it was in was hosting a slew of high school graduations. the whole ordeal has come to an end. now, before i tell you what they found and something tells me you, dear viewer, might already know, it is important to note

that anything they find is entirely untrustworthy. it's not worth the paper it's printed on or the amount they charge you to say it. there are no results here that anyone should put any faith in under any circumstances. but there is something pretty funny about the fact that after all that time and money and effort, the right-wing outrage and attention, the conclusion is, drum roll please, joe biden won the election in arizona. in fact, he won by even more votes than we initially thought. >> if we take a look at the presidential race, trump loses 261 votes from the official votes. biden gains 99 and jorgensen wins 204 votes. and again, these are all small numbers when we're talking about 2.1 million ballots. these are small discrepancies. >> very small. of course on cue, in response to those results, donald trump is now calling for arizona's

election to be decertified. republicans continue to push the big lie like nothing's changed. the election is not to be trusted, so it needs to be decertified. the election is not to be trusted, so we need another audit and on and on and on like a dooms-day cult where dooms day never arrives, and it's all to undermine trust in american elections so as to make self-governance and democracy impossible. donald trump is still declaring victory issuing banana statements, but the head of the republican national committee is still pushing the arizona audit. and all this coming one day before donald trump goes to georgia to campaign against georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger. we had raffensperger on the show earlier this week. he was the guy who quite famously was on the receiving end of the phone call where the president of the united states donald trump told him to find the votes he needed plus one to win georgia. raffensperger, to his credit, refused to do it. and now for committing that sin,

he's got a primary challenger who trump is endorsing and going to go campaign for tomorrow. and the all but explicit promise of trump's endorsement of his rival's campaign is if and when he is in raffensperger's position, when he gets to oversee the election, he will throw the election to trump. and again, just like in the run-up to the election last year, the slow-motion coup attempt is happening before our eyes. in fact, that's the thesis of this robert kagan piece today in "the washington post" where he writes, quote, the united states is heading into its greatest political and constitutional crisis since the civil war with a reasonable chance over the next three or four years of incidents of mass violence. now, a lot of things here. one, i sure hope he's wrong. two, i happen to think kay kagan has been wrong about a lot of

things in the past. but he is correct when he says this is happening right in front of us. and this piece sounds alarmist, but you know what? it reminded me a lot of an article published one year ago. that article was titled request the the election that could break america," and they've and it sounded alarmist at the time, but it was shockingly prescient in its predictions. it lays out a scenario in which battleground states of republican legislatures sends competing on january 6th. pence as president of the senate would hold in his hands two conflicting electoral certificates. the trump team would take the position that the constitutional language leaves those questions of which -- which results to the vice president. this means that pence has a unilateral power to announce his own re-election and a second term for trump. yeah. nailed it. we now know from that leaked memo from one of the trump

campaign's legal advisers that is exactly what they were trying to do. mark gelman wrote that piece for the "atlantic" one year ago and he joins me now. i guess it's weird to take a kind of victory lap given what happened, but i am very curious to hear what your perspective is on where things stand now given where you predicted and what happened. >> well, i would really much rather have been wrong than right. on this one. i agree with a lot more than i would like to agree with. you just referred to it. the trump campaign and the president and his allies went even farther than i thought they would do a year ago. and it is not clear. it was a much more systematic

effort to overthrow the vote of the people at the time. that there was -- that there was strategy and a multi-pronged attack behind it, that it was a legal and political strategy that republican legislators were willing to go along with it and discard the votes from their own electorate, the same votes that elected them, and simply try to appoint trump as president. these were ongoing efforts. as you pointed out, there was no reason to do a forensic audit, whatever they think that means, of the texas vote that trump actually won. even if it weren't pointless because there's no legal

mechanism for changing the vote, for changing the electorally and the outcome of the 2020 election, even if that weren't true, it would be transparent is what this is is forward looking, that they're trying to undermine the very idea of authority over election outcomes. >> yes. >> that everything is up for negotiation and up for pressure. and it's not just in georgia that trump and the republicans are trying to overthrow secretaries of state. there are secretary of state candidates in a number of states now who are openly part of the big lie, who are pretending to believe that joe biden is in office by a rigged election, and, therefore, are implicitly

promising to unrig, to throw the election to trump next time around. and it looks pretty clear right now that trump is going to run again. >> one of the things, i think, that that was key to the piece and one of the things i thought about a lot is that some form of concession, real concession, not just lip service concession, is actually a huge part of how democracies function. contesting forever is insidious and toxic, right? you wrote this in the piece, which is a huge part of what we've seen. donald trump may win or lose, but he will never concede, not under any circumstance, not during or after. trump will exist from exile as long as he draws breath that the contest was rigged. and you have him saying that today. now, i got to play the actual lip service concession that he did offer just to be scrupulous here, which looks like a hostage video, and comes one day after the failed insurrection.

this is the closest that anyone ever got to a concession. >> my campaign vigorously pursued every legal avenue to contest the election results. my only goal was to ensure the integrity of the vote. in so doing, i was fighting to defend american democracy. i continue to strongly believe that we must reform our election laws to verify the identity and eligibility of all voters, and to ensure faith and confidence in all future elections. now congress has certified the results. a new administration will be inaugurated on january 20th. my focus now turns to ensuring a smooth, orderly and seamless transition of power. >> again, all the seeds are planted there of what you said, the contesting of authority. at this fundamental level, it makes democracy impossible if you're successful in the effort

to make it impossible to register a winner as a kind of consensus reality, you make self-governance impossible. >> that's exactly it. if you say, for example, as trump did and as some republican candidates are beginning to say again now, that there's no way i lose this election unless it's rigged, that's a declaration of intent. that's a declaration that that is game which you're not allowed to lose, that there's only one acceptable answer, only one legitimate governing party, and that if the republican candidate doesn't win, it must mean by definition that there was fraud, and it must mean by definition that any democratic government is illegitimate. that's what we have right now. >> the one counterargument here,

"the new york times" brought this up, the guy is not particularly competent. he says, you know, in responding to the kagan piece, trump has underestimated gifts, but if you lived through the last five years and didn't see incompetence turn after turn, i don't know what to say. what do you say to the guy is too incompetent to pose this existential democratic danger and you and i and kagan all believe he does? >> well, it was the saving grace of trump that he was not an efficient dictator wannabe, that he had all the instincts of an autocrat, and he got better at it, by the way. he found some pushback in the first part of his presidency from the so-called adults in the room. he got rid of them. and when he replaced them, he replaced them with acting

secretaries, acting chief of staff, never gave anybody the actual title, and he picked people who were not going to push back as hard and didn't have the kind of stature. but it is a saving grace that he's not competent, but he's got smart, smart people around him and they've learned the lesson from last time. >> thank you so much for coming on tonight. appreciate it. >> thank you. tonight, trump's attempt to avoid the committee investigating january 6th by claiming executive privilege just got torpedoed by the current occupant in the white house. four of trump's closest advisers, including his former caddie turned deputy white house chief of staff have all been subpoenaed to appear before the committee. who's next on the list? i'll ask jamie raskin about that next. cjamie raskin about that next. omjamie raskin about

that next. mjamie raskin about that next. ijamie raskin about that next. tjamie raskin about that next. tjamie raskin about that next. ejamie raskin about that next. ejamie raskin about that next. jamie raskin about that next. mjamie raskin about that next. emjamie raskin about that next. bjamie raskin about that next. er jamie raskin about that next. raskin at you need an ecolab scientific clean here. and you need it here. and here. and here. which is why the scientific expertise that helps operating rooms stay clean is now helping the places you go every day too. seek a commitment to clean. look for the ecolab science certified seal. tonight... i'll be eating a club sandwich with fries and a side of mayonnaise.

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opreza: trabajar en recology es más que un empleo para mí, es una tradición familiar.

tomé la ruta de mi padre cuando se retiró despues de 47 años. ahora le muestro a la nueva generación lo que es recology como una compañia que pertenece a los empleados. estamos orgullosos de haber creado el sistema de reciclaje. convirtiendo a san francisco, en la ciudad mas verde de america... sigamos haciendo la diferencia juntos. last night just as we were coming on the air, we learned the committee investigating the january 6th insurrection, a mob of trump rioters stomping the capitol is issuing subpoenas. the committee is seeking testimony from mark meadows, former deputy chief of staff for communications, dan scavino, former defense department official cash patel and steve bannon. today we got responses to the

subpoenas. "the washington post" saying i'm disappointed couple not surprised the committee tried to subpoena me through the press before seeking my voluntary cooperation. predictively, the twice-impeached former president said we will fight the subpoenas on executive privilege and other grounds for the good of our country. here's the thing. the privilege resides with the sitting, in this case, that's president joe biden. while there was speculation over what the biden white house mao might do, jen psaki answered that this afternoon. >> the president already concluded that it would it don't tell appropriate to assert executive privilege, and so we will respond promptly to these questions as they arise, and certainly as they come up from congress. >> one of those members of congress seeking records from the white house is congressman jamie raskin, democrat from maryland who serves on the january 6th select committee,

also the lead house manager for the second impeachment of donald trump and he joins me now. congressman, let's first start on this statement by psaki today and the executive privilege question. last night we were gaming this out a little bit. the ex-president says he's going to invoke it, the current president says he will not. what does that add up to constitutionally and practically for your committee? >> when the former president says he's going to invoke executive privilege, it's got to make you laugh because he doesn't have an executive privilege because he's a former president. i know he thinks he's the president, but he's not. it's up to the current president. if you read the supreme court's decision on u.s. versus nixon back in 1974, the justice said you're balancing overwhelming interest in the truth versus cases dealing with national security. here you got the public's overwhelming interest in the truth and national security on the same side because the value of national security is invoked

by conducting an investigation into the violent insurrection and attempted coup against the u.s. government. >> explain why these four people. >> well, it's not limited to these four people, but, i mean, we could go one by one. i mean, patel is an interest case because it does look as of president trump was trying to plant different people in different agencies in the last several weeks of the administration, and so we're very curious about that. mark meadows was with president trump on an hourly basis through days leading up to the insurrection, so he knows a lot. dan scavino appears to have been involved, and steve bannon predicted on january 5th publicly that all hell is going to break loose on january 6th and had other similarly apocalyptic pronouncements about

what was going to take place. so all of them were clearly involved at least waist deep, if not neck deep in insurrectionnary planning activity. everyone remembers mark meadows of course was at that insurrection tailgate party that they threw where everybody was eating hot dogs and sharing beverages that day. so, look, all of them should consider it not just legal duty, which it is, but a privilege, and a patriotic honor to be able to render testimony to the people's representatives in congress as we try to determine what happened in the worst violent insurrection and the worst attack on the capitol of the united states since the war of 1812, since 1814. >> that connects to the block we just did. i imagine you probably saw the robert kagan piece today in "the washington post" in which he

says we're in the worst since the civil war. there's a lot of people who are profoundly alarmed. and there's a through line between what happened and led to january 6th, which was the fundamental attack on legitimacy of the enterprise that continues now. and i wonder what your level of alarm is as you watch the president about to go down to georgia to campaign for the man primarying raffensperger who refused to bring him the votes he needed to win. >> they're systematically trying to replace anyone who got in the way. raffensperger is the one who refused to find trump 10,781 votes. wouldn't any politician like that present for the new year? so yeah, they weren't trying to fair out election fraud, they were trying to perpetrate election fraud, and now they're getting rid of anybody who didn't play ball with them. what's the basic problem?

we got one party now, which is committed to democracy and the constitution. that's the democratic party. now you got a political party which is operating outside of the constitutional order, which is constantly attacking our electoral processes, our constitutional systems, our bill of rights. and so i don't know if we're at the level of a constitutional crisis, but we're at a severe political crisis because donald trump has basically hijacked the entire republican party and they're busily trying to get rid of anybody who won't kowtow to him like a religious cult leader. >> there is an interpretation of the subpoena issues that they were born of lessons of the past. it was interesting that cash patel said you didn't do me the courtesy of volunteer operation, and my take was it's precisely a tactic used in previous inquiries to essentially just delay and delay.

>> you know, you got it, chris. they're thinking that we're the pre-donald trump democratic party. we're the post-donald trump democratic party. we're fighting for democracy right now, we're fighting for the constitution. we understand every game and gimmick that the republicans like to play, and we're not going to show them that kind of respect anymore. no, we're not going to give them weeks or months to play games and not turn stuff in. we want something from them. they're going to turn it over. we're going to subpoena them. they're going to follow the law. that's it. and if any of them think they can slither away from this, they should be wondering about the information we already got within our possession in our committee. >> wow. congressman jamie raskin, thank you very much. >> thank you for having me, chris. coming up, why did cdc director rochelle walensky overrule her own advisory committee. who is now eligible after this? don't go anywhere.

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. today the head of the centers for disease control and prevention dr. walensky overruled the recommendation of her i object advisory panel, coming out in favor of booster shots that the fda approved pfizer coronavirus vaccine for frontline workers, which includes health care workers, teachers, and others whose jobs put them at risk. the unusual move was underscored by the fact the decision came out after midnight. but it is in line with the administration's going to feel getting all americans booster shots. >> this week we took a key step in protecting the vaccinated with booster shots, which are top government doctors believe provides the highest level of protection available to date. i'll be getting my booster shot -- i -- hard to acknowledge i'm over 65, but i'll be getting my booster shot. it's a bear, isn't it? all kidding aside, i'll be

getting my booster shot. i'm not sure exactly when i'm going to do it, as soon as i can get it done. >> joining me now is the cdc directors dr. rochelle walensky. great to have you. a lot of people have a lot of questions, so if you'll bear with me, i would like to just walk through all of this because i follow this for a living and i feel a little confused. so first, i just want to talk about the process we saw play out, because i think that's part of the confusion. there's an advisory panel called akip, and they issue recommendations and then you can take them or leave them, i guess. what is the normal way of the process and why are these two steps? >> thank you, chris. so actually, we can back up a little bit more and say there's an advisory panel to the fda. that voted for the booster shot. there's the regulatory authorization they did on wednesday and the advisory

committee on immunization the liberties and advises me who they believe the booster should be recommended for. that was the panel that met on wednesday and thursday. they're about four votes, and some of them were unanimous, and the one that i believe you're referring to was a split vote. >> okay. i don't want to get to processy, but i think it's part of the confusion because it's, like, what is their task? are they looking at the data? are they making a policy judgment based on costs and benefits? what's going into the thinking of that advisory board and then into your judgments? >> they pored over the data for two days. they looked at vaccine effectiveness and how it was doing, was there waning, how much waning was leading to hospitalizations. they look at feasibility. they look at the safety data and take all those data together and make a recommendation based on a vote. >> okay. so now let's get to the categories of people for whom

booster shots are now recommended and under which circumstances. now, this is just for the pfizer vaccine. i want to talk about the others because there's a lot of questions about those too. right now we're just talking about pfizer. walk me through categories of people that the cdc is now recommending receive booster shots. >> right. so we want to make sure that people who are past their six months after their second dose, again, people who received pfizer for their first two doses. we are recommending people be boosted if they are over the age of 65, if they live in long-term care facilities, and if they have high risk of severe disease by virtue of the fact that they have other comorbidities. we are suggesting that people may get a booster if they have occupational risk or high risk of exposure because of their occupation or because of places they live, institutional settings. >> right. so everyone we were talking about are people who are past

six months of the second shot because there's some data indicating some diminution of vaccine efficacy of pfizer after that period, so we're talking about seniors, we're talking about people that are in long-term care facilities, we're talking about people with high risk of comorbidities, and then the may is if you're a frontline worker, you can get a shot. that's where we're at. >> frontline workers and institutional settings. we wanted to make it so these are people that have the option. health care workers were among the first vaccinated, some of them nearly nine months ago. and they are now still being called upon in many places with short falls of health care workers. and we want to make sure they are protected or have the option to be protected. >> i want to read a critique from dr. william shaft ner. there's been a critique of this process. the thrust of it is the

administration put the cart before the horse. the administration announced this policy goal, we're going to get everyone booster before the process played out to analyze the data and then things were kind of reverse engineered around that. this has not been done according to the rules. it started in washington with the president's announcement, a nonvoting member of the cdc's vaccine advisory panel. this has been confusing all along. what do you say to that? >> you know, back in august, the cdc published several studies that started to suggest that we were going to see some waning, and we were seeing waning in israel and a couple of countries that had delta before us. and so we were starting to get concerned that waning was happening and that we were going to need boosts, and that's when we started planning. that's when that announcement happened. fast forward now to pfizer has sent their information into the fda. the fda has authorized the boost, and now the cdc reviews

the advisory panel reviews the science and provides a recommendation to me. what i can tell you is over the last week i have watched numerous hours of scientific deliberation about this. this was made on the science. >> what about those who got moderna or johnson & johnson? what expectation should they have about booster guidance on those vaccines? >> a critical question. we are anxiously awaiting the manufacturers to submit the information to the fda. the fda will act with urgency. the advisory committee at cdc will also act with urgency and we are anticipating that will happen within weeks. >> the cdc also published a study today on masking in schools that looked at different arizona counties and school districts. pretty striking top line. what was the big finding there? >> you know, the big finding is

that masks in school work. we only had in school districts six weeks of school and we had 1,800 schools closed, nearly 1 million children have been out of school because of school closures. but the study you're referring to in arizona demonstrated that schools that had masks were 3.5 times less likely to have a school outbreak than schools that didn't have masks. >> just as a follow-up, are we sure that's not a correlation issue and not a causation, that they're the ones most inclined to not have a masking policy? >> and that's actually been studied as well and we've examined those correlations for the concern you raise. this is an independent effect of masks. >> wow. that's really, really striking and concrete data and extremely useful, i think, for everyone who's issuing these guidance.

i feel like i understand this better now than going into this interview, which was my goal for today, so thank you, dr. rochelle walensky. >> thank you so much. still to come, the openly racist coverage of immigration on fox news. i've got something to say about that, so stick around. you do not want to miss it. charlie's my little sidekick when it comes to projects around the house. but, she disappears on me. i can't see everything she gets into, that's why i trust tide hygienic clean. it gets between fibers to remove visible and invisible dirt. if it's got to be clean, it's got to be tide. introducing fidelity income planning. we look at how much you've saved, how much you'll need, and build a straightforward plan to generate income, even when you're not working. a plan that gives you the chance to grow your savings and create cash flow that lasts. along the way, we'll give you ways to be tax efficient. and you can start, stop or adjust your plan at any time without the unnecessary fees. talk to us today, so we can help you go from saving...to living.

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ever since there had been immigrants coming to america in large numbers, there have been bigots and races who did not want them. one consistent argument, those bigots and races have made is that the newcomers would overrun the people who are already here. this is old, standard stuff. usually about race, ethnicity, or religious. it of course happened to the irish and the italians and the jews and the chinese. in fact, the first bit of immigration legislation in this country was literally the chinese exclusion act. the mexican most recently, haitians.

the fundamental message of these bigots across time is these bad, other dirty people, uncivilized, different than us, would overrun and replace us, the good, pure americans. here's the former grand wizard of the kkk, david duke, making that argument as well as an updated version you may have heard very recently. >> i think that our heritage in this country is being lost. i'm not against the rights of any minorities, but i think this country is on its way to bag third world nation. >> we have a moral obligation to admit the world's poor, they tell us, even if it makes our own country poor, dirtier, and divided. >> right now america is being made over. we're losing the integrity of our society. our children will be growing up with strangers in their own land. >> and unrelenting string of immigration, but why? joe biden just said it, to change the racial mix of the country. that's the reason, to reduce the political power of people whose

ancestors lived here. >> you have a rapidly declining european american majority, and if we don't reverse this soon, we will be a minority in our own country. and at that point we will be outnumbered and outvoted in our land, and no matter what you think about any issue, you will be powerless to make your voice heard in government. >> this policy is called the great replacement, the replacement of legacy americans with more obedient people from faraway countries. >> in a lot of those moments, tucker carlson is a lot more overt with his bigotry than the former kkk guy. many have been shocked by how audaciously racist this argument is, but it is worth confronting it because it is not just racist, it is also stupid. now, those things are related because racism is a form of stupidity, but in this case i want to confront the core idea because the text of this argument is also said over this subtext. these are the images i'm sure

you have seen. these are the people leaving one of the poorest countries in the world, haiti, making a perilous trek across the rio grande to cross into the u.s. and set up a camp under a texas bridge, hoping to apply for asylum, which is their right under national, our laws, and international law. it's a right that was suspended by the trump administration with the help of steven miller and whose suspension has been continued by the biden administration, essentially leading to those folks, those haitian people being rounded up and deported back to haiti. now, for the record, this is what it looks like under that bridge today. the entire camp is empty. today the department of homeland security secretary alejandro mayorkas announced that all the migrants there have been removed. some are being returned to haiti. a majority of them are now headed for immigration proceedings. but these are the images that have been airing around the clock on fox news because these images communicate something.

they speak far louder than any arguments can. whenever they show you a large group of people at the border, it is because the images like this are meant to scare you. they're meant to tell you, you americans sitting at home watching the tv that these people are coming to take what is yours to overrun you, and to stimulate the deepest part of your brain in the brain stem that is scared, of strangers and foreigners, a part of brain we all have. it's a very profound and effective form of politics, not just here, but across the world in all kinds of different contexts. it's one of the most dangerously virulent forms of demagoguery the world over, particularly as the world has become smaller. now, i'd like to spell out the many reasons why this particular racism isn't just morally vicious, but deeply stupid. first of all, it's almost too

obvious to state but i'm going to say it anyway. no one's being replaced. if you're watching me right now and let's say the u.s. allowed every one of those haitians to apply for asylum, you wouldn't get kicked out of the country. it's not the way it works. america is not a night club where people have to come out before other people can come in. it's actually a really big country with nearly 330 million people. so a few thousand people are not replacing anyone. number two, the david dukes and the tucker carlsons of the world want to portray the people coming near as in tucker's words obedient, as mindless drones imported because any will do whatever democrats tell them. think about it for just half a second. okay? these people have done one of the most difficult ambitious things a human being can do. left their homes at great personal cost and risk. they crossed thousands of miles to completely foreign land where

most don't know anyone and don't speak the language in the slim hope of a better life. whatever you want to call that that's the opposite of obedient. whatever you want to say about the folks showing up in conditions these are go getters by definition. niece a tougher row to hoe than being a legacy case cruising on name and family connections. the other part of the claim that doesn't make sense is the idea that anyone knows what politics these people believe or how they will vote. one of the remarkable things we saw fl 2020 was a lot of immigrants who voted for donald trump. "new york times" wrote quote many areas with latinos and asian descent including highest numbers of immigrants a surge in turnout and shift to the right often sizable. you know what? people are complicated. all people, no matter where they come from or look like still human beings, still complicated. what logical reason would the republican party or

conservatives have to broadly dismiss an opportunity to grow the party to the movement's base? and finally, tucker carlson is alleging some conspiracy by the democratic party to bring in liberal voters. but the truth is the opposite. i've been covering this issue 16 years. i wrote a story in 2006 spiked about the mccane kennedy comprehensive immigration reform. covering it through two democratic administrations. at no point have democrats gotten eye through immigration reform. and the u.s. under the biden administration admitted just over 6,000 refugees in a country of 330 million people. if this is a conspiracy by the democrats to import a ton new voters they are doing a very bad job at it aren't they? the reality is that the last two democratic presidents have had strong enforcement first policy approaches at the border. that was the case under barack

obama. it's the case under joe biden right now. and of course the disgusting irony is that that wrong -- and again stupid racist message about replacement is pounded into people's heads so that people like joe biden and other democrats get scared of that reaction and they send these desperate people who have undertaken one of the most courageous things a person undertakes back to where they came from. that's the point. i'm sorry we can't allow this vicious stupidity to win. julian castro serve as the secretary of housing and urban wet development under president obama. he joins me now. what do you think, about the idea, julian that the messages as vial as it is draws blood and works with the people it's intended to work and scarce democrats and all the way up in the biden administration into being worried about what it

looks like with how -- what they do on the border? well, no question. and you laid out some of the history of that, whether talking earlier on about chinese, or irish, or italians or jews or mexicans or for example folks in the northern triangle countries, haitians. there is a powerful a fear mongering and xenophobia that has gone a long way in politics. and the reaction to that among democrats too often has been to not touch it, think of it as a third rail issue, not mix it up. what happens is they don't make the argument. you remember, chris, that when he accepted the nomination for president joe biden spoke about -- he has spoken about it many times on the campaign trail before, the 2020 election being a battle for the soul of the nation. well, who wins?

well we don't make the argument about why extending a hand of compassion and of common sense to people fleeing deep poverty and political turmoil and gang violence and natural disasters, who are in dire need, we won't even allow them to make an asylum claim. on to top of that, the images that captured them being treated like animal, it's astounding, this last few days have been astounding to me. so out of character i think with what people expected from president biden and his administration. >> you know, i think -- obviously i agree with you on the sort of the argument from compassion. but it strikes me that there is another argument here which again is just like it's good to have these people here. it's affirmatively good. we're not doing them favors. people from all over the country all over the world who are frankly bad asses mo have

undertaken unbelievably difficult journeys and bring that here and do a lot of great stuff and spend money and rent apartments and open businesses. and it affirmatively is good for people. it's not like i think the zero-sum notion that embedded in this they're taking the slice ever pizza i can't then eat is totally wrng. even in the practical sense, forget the charity. >> they grow the pie. right? they are hard working. they're often entrepreneurial. many folks become small business owners here in the united states. any go on to have children who often are even more successful than they are. and are part of the fabric of it progress of the country in every way that you can imagine. and have those same values that have made ours a special nation. and that's the argument that has to be made along with the others. but, again, i think right now that argument is not being made by too many people on the democratic side because there is a fear there. >> there is also something

really alarming that's happened specifically in your state in the state of texas and texas politics be which is which is that the texas republican party has leaned into the most viciously racist version of these arguments. in a way i think that would have been shocking to the texas republican party 20 years ago. obviously there are all the elements of that. i want to just play you some of basically -- these are i think texas republicans basically reciting the david duke argument. take a listen. >> they want to replace the american electorate with a third world electorate that will be on welfare and public assistance, put them on a path to citizenship and amnesty and franchise them with a vote. and they will have a permanent majority. >> the revolution has begun, a silent revolution by the democrat party and joe biden to take over the country. they are allowing this year probably two million, that's who

we apprehended and maybe another million in the country. if another 18 years in 18 years if every one has two or three children you're talking about millions and millions and minneapolis of new voters. who do you think they're voting for? so this is -- this is trying to take over our country without firing a shot. >> i mean, that's -- that's really downright violent rhetoric, honestly when you say taking over the country without firing a shot, the implication is that you would be justified, essentially, in restore li resorting to some sort of force to defend yourself from them? >> and we've seen this talk, rhetoric lead to violence. we remember what happened in 2019 in el paso at the wal-mart, in atlanta last year. and there is a danger to this kind of rhetoric taking hold in mainstream politics in the country and for it to happen in texas is crazy talk. a few weeks ago when the census

came out one of the top lines for texas was that latinos are now at 39 and a half% of the population along with non-hispanic whites. a state bordering mexico. there is still family connections, historical connections, people cross the border or trade in other reasons all the time. that's the culture of south texas. and so for these guys to think they can get away with that kind of rhetoric in a state like texas to it shows how far off the beaten path they've gone to appeal a smaller and smaller slice of the electorate that is older, whiter and they're just trying to, you know, eek out every little last bit of support they can to fire them up and win the primary. and then. >> yeah. >> try and win the general election. >> julian castro, always a pleasure, thank you, sir. appreciate it. >> thank you. before we go, i wanted to mention a piece that i wrote before i was a talking tv

person. i used to write for a living. wrote a few books. wrote a essay for the new yorker wrote it this summer. it's about how we're at where we're on the internet on the internet we're always famous check it out in the new yorker.com. hope you like it. that is all in for this week. the rachel maddow show starts now. >> i loved your piece in the new yorker chris, the bit you wrote we talked about befores with which is thousands and thousands of flattering and complementary and kind words will flow through you. but something on the other side, something critical, even mildly critical will stick to you for life. and we should think about that in a way that we can extrapolate to the ways we live on the internet now and everybody having those feelings. it's very insightful and unsettling. >> thank you very much, rachel. i appreciate if. >> fantastic you're amazing have a great weekend my friend thank you. >> thank you.

>> thanks to you at home.